Consultative selling focuses on understanding customer needs and building relationships rather than just pushing products. This approach helps businesses stand out by offering tailored solutions that genuinely address client challenges
I sat down with John Barrows , a leader in consultative selling, to discuss effective strategies for adopting these techniques to better our sales conversations.
John, CEO of JB Sales , has made a notable impact in sales training, collaborating with top-tier companies like Salesforce, LinkedIn, and Google. His approach emphasizes practical, everyday selling and leveraging new technologies to enhance sales effectiveness.
Read on to learn more and unfold a different perspective on sales. Prefer watching the video? Click here to get the webinar recording .
Q: How would you define consultative selling? âJohn Barrows: I believe sales, in general, is about helping people solve problems or achieve goals. If your goals arenât big enough and your problems arenât significant, why are we even having this conversation?
I see consultative selling as simply doing whatâs rightâhelping the client find a solution to a problem, which doesnât necessarily have to be yours.
I recently wrote a post emphasizing that itâs better to know what youâre great at and focus on that, and also know what your competition excels at.
If youâre not great at something but your competition is, itâs far better to make that recommendation than to try to force a mismatched solution on someone. If they buy from you and later realize itâs not a fit or itâs not as good as you said, that outcome is worse than not making the sale at all because it leads to bad reviews and bad references.
We are in too small of a world where poor quality doesnât get noticed. The more you try to convince people to buy something thatâs not the right fit, the more youâre doing a disservice to yourself, them, and the industry.
So, consultative selling means understanding the clientâs problems and being a resource to help solve them, whether the solution is yours or someone elseâs. Q: Do you see the trend changing from traditional selling to consultative selling? John Barrows: It depends on what youâre selling. There are different types of sales, like SMB sales which are more transactional, and then there are mid-market and enterprise sales.
In my experience, successful enterprise sales reps have always been consultative. You canât simply force a million-dollar solution on someone; that approach wonât work. Youâre compelled to adopt a consultative approach at that level.
In the mid-market, I think weâve generally been quite lax, and itâs often a high-volume game. I work in the SaaS and tech industries, where things tend to move much faster than in most other sectors. I have to constantly remind myself that stepping out of SaaS feels like going back to sales practices from 1985ânot in an insulting way, but itâs just not as evolved as SaaS, which, frankly, might have over-engineered the sales process and removed too much of the human element.
Nevertheless, I still get a lot of clients asking me to shift from a product-centric approach to more of a solution-selling focus. For those unfamiliar, solution selling originated at Xerox in the late seventies.
Solution selling is all about asking the right questions instead of just pitching how great your product is. It involves tailoring the solution to meet the clientâs needs. This was one shift, and then other methodologies like the Challenger Sale emerged about 15 years ago. Challenger Sale is about positioning yourself as the industry expert who helps clients make decisions they only face annually, whereas you assist with these decisions daily. Itâs about guiding them towards good decisions by leading with insights and showing how your solutions can support current industry trends.
However, consultative selling has been a consistent thread through all these changes. The goal is always to be a trusted partner. Thereâs been a lot of discussion about it, but in reality, most reps still rely on basic qualification questions and then proceed to give lengthy product demos, ending with a discount offer. That style of selling is no longer tolerated by clients. Itâs not just about selling anymore; itâs about being the right kind of salesperson.
Q: Do you think there are any other differentiating qualities or skills that a good salesperson can have for selling or otherwise? John Barrows: Yeah, questioning is fundamental, right? Because I believe genuine curiosity has been my superpower in sales.
I know Iâm not the smartest kid out there, but I know enough, and I am curious. And again, Iâm not trying to sell you things; Iâm trying to figure out where I can help.
The quality of your questions is crucial, and frankly, no matter how experienced you get in sales, we could all get better at asking questions. Let me give you a quick, tactical example.Â
You know, Iâve always been great at reverse timeline selling, where, for instance, you want to launch on June 1. Okay, it takes about two months for this, a month for that, plus paperwork and onboarding. So, if you really want to go live by July 1, we need to sign this week. Many of us are okay at that, and I was really good at it, too. But what I wasnât good at understanding was the implications if we donât go live by June 1âlike, whatâs the impact on the business?
So, I started practicing different questions because someone I took training with a while ago emphasized the importance of understanding impact.
Itâs like, âOkay, when do you want to go live? Great. What happens if we donât? Whatâs the impact on the business if we donât go live on June 1?â
There are only two types of answers to that question.
One is a real answer, like, âWeâre going to miss out on this,â and it has a real impact on the business. Thatâs gold because then you can push as hard as you need to.
But the other answer is, âWell, weâll just keep doing what weâre doing.â If you get that answer, youâre either not talking to the right person or you shouldnât forecast that opportunity right.
And then thereâs this added piece where I keep learning. Iâm reading a book now called âJolt Effect ,â actually by the people who wrote âChallenger Sale.â
They talk about how indecision is our biggest competitorânot âno decisionâ as everyone thinks. Itâs indecision because there are too many options, things are moving too fast, and people are afraid to make decisions. No one gets fired for not making a decision, but people do get fired for making a bad one.
So, the risk is what we now have to mitigate.
I ask questions like, âWhen do you want to go live?â âWhat happens if we donât go live that day?â âWhat happens if you make the wrong decision here?â
Instead of selling the dream like most sales reps, who say, âAfter implementing our solution, look at how beautiful your life will be,â I ask, âWhat happens if you make the wrong decision?â
This leads to almost a therapy session where people reveal their fears, and thatâs the key.
Learning how to ask the right questions uncovers the right information, which you can then use to better service the client, handle objections, and ultimately make the sale. Itâs hilarious to me how some people think they have their sales stages, including discovery, as if thatâs it. You should keep asking questions all the way through. Questioning is one of the top skills sales reps need to become better at.
Q: What are your thoughts on the product demos that are happening today? How would you approach it differently? John Barrows: Demos are my least favorite part of the entire sales process.
Each demo is exactly the same, and I donât see value in it. Most demos go like this: âHi John. Thanks for your time. Is this still a good time?â
First of all, please never ask that question.
Instead, you might say, âDo we still have 30 minutes? Do you have a hard stop at 2 oâclock?â I do want to know that.
Then, they proceed with a 30-minute demo, saying, âLet me know if you have any questions as we go.â They go through each slide as if itâs a badge of honor from boot camp, pausing intermittently to ask, âDoes that make sense?â Because theyâre not engaging.
The question âDoes that make sense?â comes off as condescending, as if saying, âHey, did you grasp that?â Most of the time, when a rep asks if it makes sense, theyâre really asking themselves because theyâve probably rambled and need to pause, seeing the person zoning out.
At the end of one of these uninspiring demos, you often get a parting phrase like, âJohn, that was great. I need some time to digest what you just told me. Why donât you send over the info and weâll circle back in a couple of weeks? Does that sound fair?â
If you hear that, itâs our job to help them digest the information. If they leave more confused than when they arrived, weâve done a terrible job.
So hereâs how to address this.
Nobody cares about your entire presentation. Let me be clear. Your entire solutionâno one cares about all aspects of it. This is my belief, which Iâve discussed in a blog post called âSell the 20% .â If you consider any product or service you own, I guarantee you use only about 10% to 20% of its functionality.
Think about your clothes, your car, your phoneâthis device has more computing power than we used to send someone to the moon, yet most people just check their emails or use Snapchat.
Because most people only use 10% to 20% of what they buy, thatâs how they decide to purchase. They care about the parts most relevant to them and their priorities. And marketing, I love you, I have a marketing background, but please, consider asking before launching into the standard first three slides about company background, client list, and awards.
Whatâs the number one thing everyone loves?
Talking about themselves.
And whatâs the most valuable asset we all have?
Time.
And how long do we have these days to capture peopleâs attention?
Seconds, maybe.
So, in the first 5 to 10 minutes of a presentation, if youâre just talking about yourself, youâve already lost me. Instead, say, âHereâs what we know about you. Help me understand what else you want to get out of todayâs session.â
Then I go around to every person on the call or in the meeting and ask, âWhatâs the one thing you want to get out of this? Whatâs your main priority?â I write those down.
Then I start my presentation and ask, âJust out of curiosity, how much of our background do you really need to know here?â I can go into it if necessary, or I can send a PDF with our history. Most people donât need it, frankly.
Then, during the presentation, if your competitor has something similar or if itâs a common feature, donât waste time on it. Focus on what makes your solution unique. Say, âSarah, earlier, you mentioned that one of your key priorities was X. This part of our solution addresses that.â Instead of asking, âDoes that make sense?â ask, âCould you explain how this fits into your existing workflow?â How they respond tells me everything I need to know about whether or not it made sense.
And letâs talk about the dual discovery/demo process.
Ideally, we do discovery first, then set up a separate meeting for a tailored presentation. Reality often forces us to qualify and demonstrate in the same call.
So you need to control the conversation but keep it engaging. Donât switch from an engaged conversation to a monologue. If youâre presenting to me, and I start checking my emails under the table, youâve lost me.
The key is to engage, ask open-ended questions, and make the demo a dynamic experience where they learn something specific about how your solution can meet their specific needs.
Q: How can a salesperson effectively build trust with a prospect? John Barrows: Preparation is key.
Frankly, people often say they buy from those they like. No, they donât. They buy from those they trust.
There are many people I like whom I would never buy anything from because I simply donât trust that they have my best interests in mind or that they know what theyâre talking about.
There are also people I donât like, but I would still buy from them because I trust their expertise. They might be jerksâdirect and rudeâbut they know their product and their solution well, and they understand how they can help.
To gain trust, you canât just be an outright jerk; you need to be somewhat likable.
The easiest way to build trust is to show that youâve done your preparation. Show that youâve done your homework and that you respect my time. Time is everyoneâs number one asset. When you get 30 minutes of my time, donât start the conversation by asking, âSo, John, tell me about your business.â Thatâs probably the most insulting thing you can say to an executive these days.
Companies spend thousands, if not millions, of dollars to tell the world about their business. Walking in and asking, âTell me about your business,â or âWhat keeps you up at night?â is just wrong. My daughter keeps me up at night.
You need to know a bit about the industry; you donât have to be a thought leader, but a little knowledge goes a long way. For example, say youâre meeting with a CSO in healthcare, and you know nothing about Chief Security Officers in that sector.
Before the meeting, youâd do a little researchâmaybe a Google search on âCSO healthcare priorities challenges 2024.â
You might jump into ChatGPT and say, âHelp me understand what a CSO in healthcare deals with on a daily basis.â
Read some job descriptions, check out their social profiles, and see what theyâre posting and sharing.
This preparation enables you to enter the meeting and say, âAs I was preparing for todayâs meeting, I noticed on your LinkedIn profile that your company just undertook a specific project,â or whatever it is.
That alone shows Iâve done my homework, and Iâm not just going to spew out a bunch of clichĂ©s.
Thatâs why almost every sales call starts with the client skeptical, thinking, âAlright, sales rep, what do you have?â They listen and respond, âYour demo looks fantastic, send me some information, and letâs meet in a couple of weeks.â Thatâs typical.
But I want you, in the first five minutes, to shift from defensive to engaged. I do this by asking questions that show Iâve done my homework and encourage you to talk about what youâre passionate aboutâwhich is usually your own work.
Q: However, could you spill the beans on the traits of a lot of good salespeople who left a strong impression on you? I recently received an email that cleverly mentioned â30 Rock,â one of my favorite shows. Although I canât recall the product they were selling, the reference stayed with me. I think it was very cleverly done.
John Barrows: Thereâs a fine line, right? Thereâs personalization, and then thereâs what you might call fake personalization.
Like, as a sidebar on this, hereâs actually a small tip for everyone to consider. Weâve lost the ability to relate to people like we used to. I used to be able to walk into your office, Dhivya, and say, âOh, I see you like to fish, and I see you like â30 Rockâ,â and I could relate to that.
But now, if I were meeting you right now, thereâs nothing in your background for me to relate toâabsolutely nothing.
So what do I do?
I put stuff in my background very purposefully to relate to you. Everything in my background has a purpose. Thereâs a painting right there where, if you look closely, it actually is a skyline of Boston. But I place it just perfectly right there, so youâre kind of like, What is that? If youâre an artist, youâre going to ask me that question.
If you have kids, Iâve got my daughter over here and some pictures of my family. I wrote a book with my daughter right there, and thatâs something there.
If youâre a sports fan, there you goâthereâs the Patriots right there, and thereâs a basketball signed by Michael Jordan, and thereâs a bottle of Happy Van Winkle.
If youâre a whiskey fan, even then, thereâs something down here. Remember the old Mr. Books you had as a kid? Like âMr. Happyâ, âMr. Sadâ? Those types of things are there, too.
Every single thing in my background has a purpose.
So when you log onto my screen, youâre like, âOh, whoâs John?â If youâre a sports fan, I get this all the time: âOh, John, whoâs that basketball signed by, man? Oh, Jordan! Oh, man, Jordanâs one of my favorite players.â Instant rapport, right?
Whereas if I had nothing, you know, Iâd struggle. Iâd have to figure out how to relate to you in some way. And what I was saying earlier, like fake personalization, is worse than no personalization at all.
Because if youâre like, Letâs bring up the Patriots example, right? So, letâs say, for those of you listening, Iâm a huge Boston fan, period. Patriots, absolutely.
But if you donât know anything about American football and you try to bring that up with me? Yeah, you will actually lose credibility because Iâll get into a conversation with you about it, and Iâll be like, âOh, yeah, man, the Pats is my favorite, you know. Iâve been a Patriots fan forever. So what do you know? Whoâs your favorite team?â You might as well leave because I might tolerate you for the next 25 minutes of this conversation, just because I might be interested in what youâre saying. But you have lost so much credibility with me, because you tried to fake your way into a relationship with me, and Iâll pick that up in a minute.
Q: Does personalized messaging do more harm than good? How does it impact brand perception? Have you encountered poorly executed personalized messages? Whatâs your opinion on using generic greetings instead? John Barrows: Yes, be genuine about it. Donât just go through the motionsâIâll explain why.
Thereâs a tool I use called Crystal Knows. Have you heard of it? For those listening, Crystal Knows is not a person; it provides a DISC personality profile of anyone youâre connected to on LinkedIn through a Chrome plugin.
So, I can check whether someone is a high D, I, S, or C, and it actually guides you on how to tailor your sales approach to that individual. Thatâs my cheat code sometimes. Before I meet with someone, Iâll enter their name into Crystal Knows and see what it reveals. If you and I are the sameâif youâre a high D and Iâm a high Iâthereâs no need for me to change who I am. We can just get right into it. However, if youâre a high I or S or C, I need to adapt my style.
For example, small talk is utterly pointless for me. If someone starts with, âOh, John, how about this weather? And those sports?â all Iâm thinking is, âOkay, kid, youâve got 20 minutes left... now 15.â And I wonât extend the conversation just because you tried to build rapport at the start. Iâd much rather you dive straight in: âHey, John, thanks for your time. Do we still have 30 minutes? Great. Hereâs what weâre here to discuss. What are you hoping to get out of todayâs session?â Then, ideally, give me back 10 minutes of my time at the endâthatâs how you build rapport with me.
Other people are the complete opposite. Without the initial chit-chat about the weather or sports, they might feel rushed: âWhoa, slow down, pal!â
You need to adjust your style based on who youâre presenting to. You can use a tool like Crystal Knows to figure this out, or you can gauge it from their social media profilesâare they verbose, do they post many pictures, or are they more text-oriented? By mirroring the people you meet, you can make them more receptive to having a conversation with you. Q: How do you handle situations where you need information on such groups? There are some groups of people, like those working in operations or administration, who donât have much of an online presence. I often find these profiles to be pretty empty and Iâm not sure where to find more about them.
John Barrows: Yeah, thatâs where you just have to adapt to the persona and the industry. Ideally, Iâm going to share a tool I found with everyone here. Thereâs a version of ChatGPT that costs $20, but letâs continue. This one is like a buyer persona generator. Itâs straightforward, right? Letâs take the CSO in healthcare, for example.
Suppose this CSO doesnât post anything on social media at all. Well, Iâm going to use ChatGPT or Perplexity to ask, âWhatâs going on in the healthcare industry right now? What are some of the trends I should be aware of? What challenges are CSOs in healthcare currently facing? What are their main priorities?â Then, Iâll educate myself. Iâll go back and read some job descriptions because they often provide relevant insights. Iâll also do a Google search about this role and follow a few CSOs in healthcare to see what theyâre posting about.
So then, when I get a chance to either reach out to or meet with a CSO in healthcare, instead of asking, âTell me about your priorities,â Iâll say, âHey, Dhivya, weâre typically dealing with CSOs in healthcare who are telling us that entering 2024, their top three priorities are X, Y, and Z. Are those yours?â
Showing that you understand their world a bit tends to open up the conversation more, and itâs really not that hard to figure out. You donât have to be an expert; you just have to know enough. Letâs also consider international travel.
Iâll give you a quick example. When I went to Paris for the first time, many of my friends said, âOh, Parisians hate Americans. Theyâre absolutely the rudest people out there.â I wondered why. They just said, 'They just hate Americans.â So, I took French as a kid. I donât practice it, but I remember a bit.
Most Americans only know one language, right? But I knew how to say, âExcusez-moi, parlez-vous anglais?â (Excuse me, do you speak English?) Thatâs all I knew. When I was in Paris, I asked everyone I encountered that question, and nine times out of ten, they would respond positively, âAbsolutely, man, what can I help you with?â I had a fantastic time in Paris and was treated wonderfully.
So, I returned home and asked my friends about their approach when they visited Paris. âDid you respect the culture at all? Or were you the typical American who just barged in asking, âExcuse me, do you know where the Eiffel Tower is?â and treated them disrespectfully? What would you do if you were in America and a French person approached you speaking French? How would you react?â
Itâs the same with executives.
If you just walk in and demand, âTell me about your priorities,â it shuts the conversation down.
But if you show that you understand their world a bit, youâre more likely to engage them meaningfully.
For instance, when I say, âWeâre typically dealing with CSOs in healthcare, and theyâre telling us these three things,â it leads to a yes, a no, or a detailed discussion, rather than a generic response.
Key Takeaways From the in-depth conversation between Dhivya Venkatesan and John Barrows, several important points were highlighted regarding sales strategies and consultative selling:
Consultative selling is about helping clients solve their problems or achieve goals rather than just pushing products. This approach is crucial for building long-term relationships and ensuring customer satisfaction. Modern sales strategies emphasize understanding customer needs and customizing solutions to meet these needs, rather than just promoting product features. Effective questioning is key to consultative selling. It helps uncover the clientâs real needs and the impact of solutions on their business, enabling salespeople to offer more relevant and effective solutions. Building trust with prospects is more crucial than ever. This involves thorough preparation, understanding the clientâs industry and needs, and demonstrating a genuine interest in helping them solve their issues. The sales landscape is rapidly evolving with technological advancements. Sales techniques need to adapt to remain effective, particularly in engaging and understanding todayâs well-informed customers. Personalization should be meaningful and based on real insights into the clientâs preferences and needs. Authenticity in sales interactions builds rapport and trust, which are essential for successful consultative selling. 
