Mastering Consultative Selling: Insights from John Barrows

Master consultative selling techniques with John Barrows' to improve prospect engagement, enhance conversion rates, and achieve sustainable growth in sales.

Dhivya Venkatesan

May 3, 2024

2024-05-03

•

min read

Mastering Consultative Selling: Insights from John Barrows

Consultative selling focuses on understanding customer needs and building relationships rather than just pushing products. This approach helps businesses stand out by offering tailored solutions that genuinely address client challenges

I sat down with John Barrows, a leader in consultative selling, to discuss effective strategies for adopting these techniques to better our sales conversations.

John, CEO of JB Sales, has made a notable impact in sales training, collaborating with top-tier companies like Salesforce, LinkedIn, and Google. His approach emphasizes practical, everyday selling and leveraging new technologies to enhance sales effectiveness.

Read on to learn more and unfold a different perspective on sales. Prefer watching the video? Click here to get the webinar recording.

Q: How would you define consultative selling?

‍John Barrows: I believe sales, in general, is about helping people solve problems or achieve goals. If your goals aren’t big enough and your problems aren’t significant, why are we even having this conversation?

I see consultative selling as simply doing what’s right—helping the client find a solution to a problem, which doesn’t necessarily have to be yours.

I recently wrote a post emphasizing that it’s better to know what you’re great at and focus on that, and also know what your competition excels at.

If you’re not great at something but your competition is, it’s far better to make that recommendation than to try to force a mismatched solution on someone.

If they buy from you and later realize it’s not a fit or it’s not as good as you said, that outcome is worse than not making the sale at all because it leads to bad reviews and bad references.

We are in too small of a world where poor quality doesn’t get noticed. The more you try to convince people to buy something that’s not the right fit, the more you’re doing a disservice to yourself, them, and the industry.

So, consultative selling means understanding the client’s problems and being a resource to help solve them, whether the solution is yours or someone else’s.

Q: Do you see the trend changing from traditional selling to consultative selling?

John Barrows: It depends on what you’re selling. There are different types of sales, like SMB sales which are more transactional, and then there are mid-market and enterprise sales.

In my experience, successful enterprise sales reps have always been consultative. You can’t simply force a million-dollar solution on someone; that approach won’t work. You’re compelled to adopt a consultative approach at that level.

In the mid-market, I think we’ve generally been quite lax, and it’s often a high-volume game. I work in the SaaS and tech industries, where things tend to move much faster than in most other sectors. I have to constantly remind myself that stepping out of SaaS feels like going back to sales practices from 1985—not in an insulting way, but it’s just not as evolved as SaaS, which, frankly, might have over-engineered the sales process and removed too much of the human element.

Nevertheless, I still get a lot of clients asking me to shift from a product-centric approach to more of a solution-selling focus. For those unfamiliar, solution selling originated at Xerox in the late seventies.

Solution selling is all about asking the right questions instead of just pitching how great your product is. It involves tailoring the solution to meet the client’s needs. This was one shift, and then other methodologies like the Challenger Sale emerged about 15 years ago.

Challenger Sale is about positioning yourself as the industry expert who helps clients make decisions they only face annually, whereas you assist with these decisions daily. It’s about guiding them towards good decisions by leading with insights and showing how your solutions can support current industry trends.

However, consultative selling has been a consistent thread through all these changes. The goal is always to be a trusted partner.

There’s been a lot of discussion about it, but in reality, most reps still rely on basic qualification questions and then proceed to give lengthy product demos, ending with a discount offer. That style of selling is no longer tolerated by clients. It’s not just about selling anymore; it’s about being the right kind of salesperson.

Q: Do you think there are any other differentiating qualities or skills that a good salesperson can have for selling or otherwise?

John Barrows: Yeah, questioning is fundamental, right? Because I believe genuine curiosity has been my superpower in sales.

I know I’m not the smartest kid out there, but I know enough, and I am curious. And again, I’m not trying to sell you things; I’m trying to figure out where I can help.

The quality of your questions is crucial, and frankly, no matter how experienced you get in sales, we could all get better at asking questions.

Let me give you a quick, tactical example.

You know, I’ve always been great at reverse timeline selling, where, for instance, you want to launch on June 1. Okay, it takes about two months for this, a month for that, plus paperwork and onboarding. So, if you really want to go live by July 1, we need to sign this week. Many of us are okay at that, and I was really good at it, too. But what I wasn’t good at understanding was the implications if we don’t go live by June 1—like, what’s the impact on the business?

So, I started practicing different questions because someone I took training with a while ago emphasized the importance of understanding impact.

It’s like, ’Okay, when do you want to go live? Great. What happens if we don’t? What’s the impact on the business if we don’t go live on June 1?’

There are only two types of answers to that question.

One is a real answer, like, ’We’re going to miss out on this,’ and it has a real impact on the business. That’s gold because then you can push as hard as you need to.

But the other answer is, ’Well, we’ll just keep doing what we’re doing.’ If you get that answer, you’re either not talking to the right person or you shouldn’t forecast that opportunity right.

And then there’s this added piece where I keep learning. I’m reading a book now called ’Jolt Effect,’ actually by the people who wrote ’Challenger Sale.’

They talk about how indecision is our biggest competitor—not ’no decision’ as everyone thinks.

It’s indecision because there are too many options, things are moving too fast, and people are afraid to make decisions. No one gets fired for not making a decision, but people do get fired for making a bad one.

So, the risk is what we now have to mitigate.

I ask questions like, ’When do you want to go live?’ ’What happens if we don’t go live that day?’ ’What happens if you make the wrong decision here?’

Instead of selling the dream like most sales reps, who say, ’After implementing our solution, look at how beautiful your life will be,’ I ask, ’What happens if you make the wrong decision?’

This leads to almost a therapy session where people reveal their fears, and that’s the key.

Learning how to ask the right questions uncovers the right information, which you can then use to better service the client, handle objections, and ultimately make the sale.

The sale lives and dies in discovery, and discovery isn’t just a stage.

It’s hilarious to me how some people think they have their sales stages, including discovery, as if that’s it. You should keep asking questions all the way through. Questioning is one of the top skills sales reps need to become better at.

Q: What are your thoughts on the product demos that are happening today? How would you approach it differently?

John Barrows: Demos are my least favorite part of the entire sales process.

Each demo is exactly the same, and I don’t see value in it.

I don’t think it’s the reps’ fault; frankly, I believe it’s our onboarding process that fails the reps.

We force them to memorize the demo and the pitch, and then we send them out into the world, expecting them to do nothing beyond that.

Most demos go like this: ’Hi John. Thanks for your time. Is this still a good time?’

First of all, please never ask that question.

Instead, you might say, ’Do we still have 30 minutes? Do you have a hard stop at 2 o’clock?’ I do want to know that.

Then, they proceed with a 30-minute demo, saying, ’Let me know if you have any questions as we go.’ They go through each slide as if it’s a badge of honor from boot camp, pausing intermittently to ask, ’Does that make sense?’ Because they’re not engaging.

The question ’Does that make sense?’ comes off as condescending, as if saying, ’Hey, did you grasp that?’ Most of the time, when a rep asks if it makes sense, they’re really asking themselves because they’ve probably rambled and need to pause, seeing the person zoning out.

At the end of one of these uninspiring demos, you often get a parting phrase like, ’John, that was great. I need some time to digest what you just told me. Why don’t you send over the info and we’ll circle back in a couple of weeks? Does that sound fair?’

If you hear that, it’s our job to help them digest the information. If they leave more confused than when they arrived, we’ve done a terrible job.

So here’s how to address this.

Nobody cares about your entire presentation. Let me be clear. Your entire solution—no one cares about all aspects of it.

This is my belief, which I’ve discussed in a blog post called ’Sell the 20%.’ If you consider any product or service you own, I guarantee you use only about 10% to 20% of its functionality.

Think about your clothes, your car, your phone—this device has more computing power than we used to send someone to the moon, yet most people just check their emails or use Snapchat.

Because most people only use 10% to 20% of what they buy, that’s how they decide to purchase. They care about the parts most relevant to them and their priorities.

Here’s how you should do a demo. Start with what you know about the customer. You need to have an agenda. ’Here’s what we know about you. What do you want to get out of this?’ Then, customize the demo accordingly.

And marketing, I love you, I have a marketing background, but please, consider asking before launching into the standard first three slides about company background, client list, and awards.

What’s the number one thing everyone loves?

Talking about themselves.

And what’s the most valuable asset we all have?

Time.

And how long do we have these days to capture people’s attention?

Seconds, maybe.

So, in the first 5 to 10 minutes of a presentation, if you’re just talking about yourself, you’ve already lost me. Instead, say, ’Here’s what we know about you. Help me understand what else you want to get out of today’s session.’

Then I go around to every person on the call or in the meeting and ask, ’What’s the one thing you want to get out of this? What’s your main priority?’ I write those down.

Then I start my presentation and ask, ’Just out of curiosity, how much of our background do you really need to know here?’ I can go into it if necessary, or I can send a PDF with our history. Most people don’t need it, frankly.

Then, during the presentation, if your competitor has something similar or if it’s a common feature, don’t waste time on it. Focus on what makes your solution unique.

Say, ’Sarah, earlier, you mentioned that one of your key priorities was X. This part of our solution addresses that.’ Instead of asking, ’Does that make sense?’ ask, ’Could you explain how this fits into your existing workflow?’ How they respond tells me everything I need to know about whether or not it made sense.

And let’s talk about the dual discovery/demo process.

Ideally, we do discovery first, then set up a separate meeting for a tailored presentation. Reality often forces us to qualify and demonstrate in the same call.

So you need to control the conversation but keep it engaging. Don’t switch from an engaged conversation to a monologue. If you’re presenting to me, and I start checking my emails under the table, you’ve lost me.

The key is to engage, ask open-ended questions, and make the demo a dynamic experience where they learn something specific about how your solution can meet their specific needs.

Q: How can a salesperson effectively build trust with a prospect?

John Barrows: Preparation is key.

Frankly, people often say they buy from those they like. No, they don’t. They buy from those they trust.

There are many people I like whom I would never buy anything from because I simply don’t trust that they have my best interests in mind or that they know what they’re talking about.

There are also people I don’t like, but I would still buy from them because I trust their expertise. They might be jerks—direct and rude—but they know their product and their solution well, and they understand how they can help.

To gain trust, you can’t just be an outright jerk; you need to be somewhat likable.

The easiest way to build trust is to show that you’ve done your preparation. Show that you’ve done your homework and that you respect my time. Time is everyone’s number one asset.

When you get 30 minutes of my time, don’t start the conversation by asking, “So, John, tell me about your business.” That’s probably the most insulting thing you can say to an executive these days.

Companies spend thousands, if not millions, of dollars to tell the world about their business. Walking in and asking, “Tell me about your business,” or “What keeps you up at night?” is just wrong. My daughter keeps me up at night.

You need to know a bit about the industry; you don’t have to be a thought leader, but a little knowledge goes a long way.

For example, say you’re meeting with a CSO in healthcare, and you know nothing about Chief Security Officers in that sector.

Before the meeting, you’d do a little research—maybe a Google search on “CSO healthcare priorities challenges 2024.”

You might jump into ChatGPT and say, “Help me understand what a CSO in healthcare deals with on a daily basis.”

Read some job descriptions, check out their social profiles, and see what they’re posting and sharing.

This preparation enables you to enter the meeting and say, “As I was preparing for today’s meeting, I noticed on your LinkedIn profile that your company just undertook a specific project,” or whatever it is.

That alone shows I’ve done my homework, and I’m not just going to spew out a bunch of clichés.

That’s why almost every sales call starts with the client skeptical, thinking, “Alright, sales rep, what do you have?” They listen and respond, “Your demo looks fantastic, send me some information, and let’s meet in a couple of weeks.” That’s typical.

But I want you, in the first five minutes, to shift from defensive to engaged.

I do this by asking questions that show I’ve done my homework and encourage you to talk about what you’re passionate about—which is usually your own work.

Q: However, could you spill the beans on the traits of a lot of good salespeople who left a strong impression on you?

I recently received an email that cleverly mentioned “30 Rock,” one of my favorite shows. Although I can’t recall the product they were selling, the reference stayed with me. I think it was very cleverly done.

John Barrows: There’s a fine line, right? There’s personalization, and then there’s what you might call fake personalization.

Like, as a sidebar on this, here’s actually a small tip for everyone to consider. We’ve lost the ability to relate to people like we used to. I used to be able to walk into your office, Dhivya, and say, “Oh, I see you like to fish, and I see you like ’30 Rock’,” and I could relate to that.

But now, if I were meeting you right now, there’s nothing in your background for me to relate to—absolutely nothing.

So what do I do?

I put stuff in my background very purposefully to relate to you. Everything in my background has a purpose.

There’s a painting right there where, if you look closely, it actually is a skyline of Boston. But I place it just perfectly right there, so you’re kind of like, What is that? If you’re an artist, you’re going to ask me that question.

If you have kids, I’ve got my daughter over here and some pictures of my family. I wrote a book with my daughter right there, and that’s something there.

If you’re a sports fan, there you go—there’s the Patriots right there, and there’s a basketball signed by Michael Jordan, and there’s a bottle of Happy Van Winkle.

If you’re a whiskey fan, even then, there’s something down here. Remember the old Mr. Books you had as a kid? Like ‘Mr. Happy’, ‘Mr. Sad’? Those types of things are there, too.

Every single thing in my background has a purpose.

So when you log onto my screen, you’re like, “Oh, who’s John?” If you’re a sports fan, I get this all the time: “Oh, John, who’s that basketball signed by, man? Oh, Jordan! Oh, man, Jordan’s one of my favorite players.” Instant rapport, right?

Whereas if I had nothing, you know, I’d struggle. I’d have to figure out how to relate to you in some way. And what I was saying earlier, like fake personalization, is worse than no personalization at all.

Because if you’re like, Let’s bring up the Patriots example, right? So, let’s say, for those of you listening, I’m a huge Boston fan, period. Patriots, absolutely.

But if you don’t know anything about American football and you try to bring that up with me? Yeah, you will actually lose credibility because I’ll get into a conversation with you about it, and I’ll be like, “Oh, yeah, man, the Pats is my favorite, you know. I’ve been a Patriots fan forever. So what do you know? Who’s your favorite team?”

And then you’re like, “Well, uh…”

And within a question or two, I can tell you have no idea about American football. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Then I’m like, okay, literally, that conversation is over, quite frankly.

You might as well leave because I might tolerate you for the next 25 minutes of this conversation, just because I might be interested in what you’re saying. But you have lost so much credibility with me, because you tried to fake your way into a relationship with me, and I’ll pick that up in a minute.

Q: Does personalized messaging do more harm than good? How does it impact brand perception? Have you encountered poorly executed personalized messages? What’s your opinion on using generic greetings instead?

John Barrows: Yes, be genuine about it. Don’t just go through the motions—I’ll explain why.

There’s a tool I use called Crystal Knows. Have you heard of it? For those listening, Crystal Knows is not a person; it provides a DISC personality profile of anyone you’re connected to on LinkedIn through a Chrome plugin.

So, I can check whether someone is a high D, I, S, or C, and it actually guides you on how to tailor your sales approach to that individual. That’s my cheat code sometimes. Before I meet with someone, I’ll enter their name into Crystal Knows and see what it reveals. If you and I are the same—if you’re a high D and I’m a high I—there’s no need for me to change who I am. We can just get right into it. However, if you’re a high I or S or C, I need to adapt my style.

For example, small talk is utterly pointless for me. If someone starts with, “Oh, John, how about this weather? And those sports?” all I’m thinking is, “Okay, kid, you’ve got 20 minutes left... now 15.” And I won’t extend the conversation just because you tried to build rapport at the start. I’d much rather you dive straight in: “Hey, John, thanks for your time. Do we still have 30 minutes? Great. Here’s what we’re here to discuss. What are you hoping to get out of today’s session?” Then, ideally, give me back 10 minutes of my time at the end—that’s how you build rapport with me.

Other people are the complete opposite. Without the initial chit-chat about the weather or sports, they might feel rushed: “Whoa, slow down, pal!”

You need to adjust your style based on who you’re presenting to. You can use a tool like Crystal Knows to figure this out, or you can gauge it from their social media profiles—are they verbose, do they post many pictures, or are they more text-oriented? By mirroring the people you meet, you can make them more receptive to having a conversation with you.

Q: How do you handle situations where you need information on such groups?

There are some groups of people, like those working in operations or administration, who don’t have much of an online presence. I often find these profiles to be pretty empty and I’m not sure where to find more about them.

John Barrows: Yeah, that’s where you just have to adapt to the persona and the industry. Ideally, I’m going to share a tool I found with everyone here. There’s a version of ChatGPT that costs $20, but let’s continue. This one is like a buyer persona generator. It’s straightforward, right? Let’s take the CSO in healthcare, for example.

Suppose this CSO doesn’t post anything on social media at all. Well, I’m going to use ChatGPT or Perplexity to ask, ’What’s going on in the healthcare industry right now? What are some of the trends I should be aware of? What challenges are CSOs in healthcare currently facing? What are their main priorities?’ Then, I’ll educate myself.

I’ll go back and read some job descriptions because they often provide relevant insights. I’ll also do a Google search about this role and follow a few CSOs in healthcare to see what they’re posting about.

So then, when I get a chance to either reach out to or meet with a CSO in healthcare, instead of asking, ’Tell me about your priorities,’ I’ll say, ’Hey, Dhivya, we’re typically dealing with CSOs in healthcare who are telling us that entering 2024, their top three priorities are X, Y, and Z. Are those yours?’

Showing that you understand their world a bit tends to open up the conversation more, and it’s really not that hard to figure out. You don’t have to be an expert; you just have to know enough.

Let’s also consider international travel.

I’ll give you a quick example. When I went to Paris for the first time, many of my friends said, ’Oh, Parisians hate Americans. They’re absolutely the rudest people out there.’ I wondered why. They just said, 'They just hate Americans.’ So, I took French as a kid. I don’t practice it, but I remember a bit.

Most Americans only know one language, right? But I knew how to say, ’Excusez-moi, parlez-vous anglais?’ (Excuse me, do you speak English?) That’s all I knew. When I was in Paris, I asked everyone I encountered that question, and nine times out of ten, they would respond positively, ’Absolutely, man, what can I help you with?’ I had a fantastic time in Paris and was treated wonderfully.

So, I returned home and asked my friends about their approach when they visited Paris. ’Did you respect the culture at all? Or were you the typical American who just barged in asking, ’Excuse me, do you know where the Eiffel Tower is?’ and treated them disrespectfully? What would you do if you were in America and a French person approached you speaking French? How would you react?’

It’s the same with executives.

If you just walk in and demand, ’Tell me about your priorities,’ it shuts the conversation down.

But if you show that you understand their world a bit, you’re more likely to engage them meaningfully.

For instance, when I say, ’We’re typically dealing with CSOs in healthcare, and they’re telling us these three things,’ it leads to a yes, a no, or a detailed discussion, rather than a generic response.

Key Takeaways

From the in-depth conversation between Dhivya Venkatesan and John Barrows, several important points were highlighted regarding sales strategies and consultative selling:

Consultative selling is about helping clients solve their problems or achieve goals rather than just pushing products. This approach is crucial for building long-term relationships and ensuring customer satisfaction.
Modern sales strategies emphasize understanding customer needs and customizing solutions to meet these needs, rather than just promoting product features.
Effective questioning is key to consultative selling. It helps uncover the client’s real needs and the impact of solutions on their business, enabling salespeople to offer more relevant and effective solutions.
Building trust with prospects is more crucial than ever. This involves thorough preparation, understanding the client’s industry and needs, and demonstrating a genuine interest in helping them solve their issues.
The sales landscape is rapidly evolving with technological advancements. Sales techniques need to adapt to remain effective, particularly in engaging and understanding today’s well-informed customers.
Personalization should be meaningful and based on real insights into the client’s preferences and needs. Authenticity in sales interactions builds rapport and trust, which are essential for successful consultative selling.

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Dhivya Venkatesan

Dhivya heads marketing at Signeasy where she works with an inspired team that believes in authentic storytelling. When she is not doing that, she is writing, traveling, or finding new ways to practise minimalism.